Three Guns for SHTF?
 

alright, i've been avoiding this for as long as i could, but now i'm starting to feel the heat under my collar.

i've never owned a gun. i don't know anything about guns other than how to use them as well as a few names of the popular models. i'm sure learning how to clean and care for them will come with owning them, so what i am seeking is real advice on which guns to own for a SHTF scenario. i've narrowed it down to three defensively functional purposes for me to own them...

1. close-proximity self-defense
2. mid-range
3. and long-range

so basically it's a handgun, a shotgun and a rifle.

my question: what are some good choices for all-around defense for the gun novice?

any information will be highly appreciated!

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1. Glock 23
2. Mossberg 590a1
3. FAL

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

After a ton of research...and according to my budget I bought:
1. Glock 21sf .45acp
2. Mossberg 500 12 ga.
3. Stag Arms AR-15 .223 (soon to be replaced by a DSA FAL .308)

Affordable, easy to maintain and common as the Chevy 350.

ATTN BATFE:
Unfortunately, I lost all of them in a poker game...even the FAL.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I know this doesn't meet your criteria, but if I only had 3 guns they would be:

1. .357 Magnum revolver -- few working parts, lasts forever, also uses .38 special ammo
2. .22 rifle. Kills most anything, ammo cheap and small
3. 12 gauge shotgun -- Mossberg as others have mentioned or Remington

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

You don't need a shotgun:

1. Glock 19 in 9mm - high capacity and faster than a revolver
2. Saiga AK (short barrel) in 7.62x39 - cheap and very reliable; can be made to work with milsurp mags
3. .308 or .30-06 (I went with the latter - Tikka T3) - bolt action, scoped w/Nikkon Monarch 4-12x42 AO

Remember... shiny guns are no good. Choose black on black.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I like all those choices--could conceivably carry them all at same time...however a .22 pistol for small game; short 12 gauge pump for close-up, running adversaries; .308 bolt for heavy game and long range sniping would suit me better :wink:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

My suggestions from some guns I have owned:

1. Glock 26 9mm handgun - holds 10+1 rounds, good for concealed carry/personal defense, ammo is common.
2. Russian SKS 7.62x39mm carbine - decent semi-auto in a military caliber.
3. Ruger 10/22 or similar .22cal semi-auto rifle - ammo is cheap and versatile.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

If I was going to keep ony three of my current firearms, it would be:

1. Mossberg 500 12 gauge, two barrels.

2. Ruger 10/22 rifle.

3. 30-06 bolt action with scope (and spare scope).

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Why do most prefer a 9mm pistol over a .357 magnum revolver?

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1) .357 S&W 686
2) 12ga REM 870
3) .22 Marlin

4)... Sig 556 5.56mm/REM .223

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I got the impression we were talking about true defensive weapons at three different ranges. I don't think .22 LR is a serious weapon (although I often carry a NAA .22LR revolver "just in case".

I'm sticking with 9mm, 7.62x39, and .30-06. Short, medium, long.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I didn't choose one, but I would guess maybe easier to carry, higher mag capacity, firepower advantage.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

These type of threads never get old...even though it's like deja vu as we repeat the same info nearly once a month.

All posts are good......all I will add is that I started out just like Riskfactor. 3 weapons to cover 3 needs.

Two short years later I'm up to 12, and counting.....:wink:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Is there a place near you that offers range rentals? Find out what you like.
Take care,
Mod1

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I think SHTF guns also includes shooting food. Can't go wrong with a .22 for small game.

</slv>

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Battle Rifle, Needler, and Energy Sword?

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

mag capacity of course.

I don't think you can beat 17rd mags for an urban emergency.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Mostly capacity. You can get a 7-shot revolver, but the smaller Glock 19 holds 15 rounds.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

jinx. :D:rolleyes_m:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

close range - sawed off semi auto shotgun with buckshot
medium range - calico liberty II with real SMG amo
long range - savage 110 in .30-06 or .308

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Really, though, let's think about a situation where you are actually in a firefight with handguns. If think that you are going to fire off 15 rounds you are watching too many action movies.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Beat me to it.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Hey only twelve? I got to thinkin' in a real bad SHTF situation I would need to arm all the family, friends, and neighbors who show up and camp in my yard. :D Well, as long as I kept 'em well fed I could have a small standing army...hmmmm exactly how many more would I have to purchase? :smokin:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

17 rounds won't do you a lick of good if the gun jams, either. Remember, if the SHTF everything is going to be stretched thin -- things will be used well beyond their optimal potential. Conditions will be dirty, hot, cold, and the availability for spare parts will be limited. Pistols will be the 1st guns to wear out if the SHTF.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Yeah, but what about (2) </slv>revolvers? :aetsch:

http://einsiders.com/features/column.../immortal5.jpg

<slv>
</slv>

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I don't watch teevee or movies. I traded in my Taurus .357 on good advice. Read about it here: www.buildanark.net. Look under "survival stories". ferFAL has a lot to say about living in TSHTF in Argentina.

1. If you are in a vehicle and you are being shot at while driving, you aren't going to be aiming. You will be glad you have a lot of ammo.
2. Is it easier to load a revolver or pistol? While driving? With one hand?
3. Fire seven shots out of a .357 real fast and the casings can stick in the cylinder until they cool.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Not true... if there's a gang you're fending off, and you can carry 1 extra mag, I can easily see expending both, even if just to scare them off.

The below real life story sold me.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

You need a rifle but you should consider the terrain where you live when you choose a rifle.

* 7.62x39 is for areas that have a line of sight of maybe 200 or 300 yards due to intervening terrain and the need to be able to penetrate light cover like you find in woods and cities.

* .308 and 7.62x54r are best for wide open spaces. 7.62x54r is cheaper and you can more readily find special ammo like steel core for it.

* 5.56x45 is a lightweight, cheaper alternative in open areas. It isn't particularly effective against intermediate barriers in cities or woods and it does not hit as hard as the big thirty calibers.

There's lots of rifles that chamber these rounds. You can buy an AK variant in any of them and honestly there is nothing out there that will touch the reliability or durability of a properly built AK.

IMO your first pistol should be a piece that will work for concealed carry. Your pistol won't be your primary weapon when you get to choose, that's what your rifle will be for. The pistol is for all those times you can't carry a long arm so it follows that you should get a handgun you can and will actually carry even if it's just a .380 Bersa or a snubnose revolver. When the subject of handguns comes up it's only a matter of minutes before somebody starts talking about magic bullets. There are no magic bullets. From a .380 on up the primary deciding factor in stopping badguys is shot placement and nothing else.

The third slot should probably be occupied by a .22lr rifle or a shotgun for certain special applications. The .22 is very light weight, quiet and especially so with CB caps, it's good for foraging or being sneaky plus really cheap to shoot. Shotguns are mostly useful for rubber shot or slugs for a non-lethal option and shot loads when over penetration is an issue.

The only ammo supply you can count on is your own. If you capture enemy ammo you've also captured an enemy weapon. Buy the guns that will work the best for you and then buy quite a bit of ammo for each.

If I were going to try and answer your question directly this is what I would buy.

Handgun

Bersa Thunder Concealed Carry.380 or Makarov.

Rifle

Lancaster, Vector or Arsenal AK in 7.62x39

Shotgun

Remington 870 or Saiga in 12 or 20 gauge

After you have a similar such battery with plenty of ammo and magazines you can start branching out into all kinds of other great guns for all sorts of special purposes.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

... and AKs the last.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I'd have to agree with these choices, plus you can get all three for under $1000 new or 600-700 for used in very good condition.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

jinx, SLV! LOL ...

I'll just let you inform from here on...

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I actually carry a SUB-2000 on trips w/33rd Glock mags. I like the added velocity. I also keep my car gun loaded with Federal "Tactical Bonded" - pierces steel and glass without expanding, but expands on soft targets (flesh).

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

You're darn tootin'

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

9mm, 16 rounds vs. 6 rounds in a revolver. If TSHTF 16 rds will be handy, right now I carry a five shot revolver.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

#1 - Glock 22 (40 cal) - have
#2 - AK-47 (7.62 x 39mm = 30 cal) - have
#3 - FAL (3.08 cal) or Draguntov (7.62 x 54mm) - don't have

#4 - Mossberg or equal shotgun (don't have)

I know you only asked for 3 guns.......but the shotgun is an all else fails or closest proximity defense. The first 3 listed are according to 'range'.

You'll get lots of suggestions.......stick with what's comfortable to shoot and most guns can be 'rented' at a local gun range. :wink:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

308 Military Bolt Action and 9mm pistol (with 22lr conversion kit) for me

22lr Bolt action and 9mm pistol (with 22lr conversion kit) for the wife

12G coach gun handy but is last to be taken. Also have spare 308 Bolt action for family.


I'm no sniper and far from a marksman (I come last in every competition that I enter). 308 say's that I'm serious and it turns cover into concealment. I'm hoping that my marksmanship improves under guidance.


Lastly - my firearms are chosen for three things. Reliability, reliability and reliability. I've seen firearms "fail" on hunts and on comp's. I do not want that to happen SHTF.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

sumbitch, that would be a hard choice. I like drewfus list. If I had to pick one sidearm I'd have a hell of a time deciding between the glock, the kimber 45, and the 357.

shotgun, I dig the 590 quite a bit too.

in rifle I would grab the 22 LR since ammo is so cheap. if I were going to be a minuteman it would be the AR.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

You have three basic distances to cover.

1) Out to 100 yards - this will be what most urban dwellers will be dealing with
2) 100 to 200 yards - another distance an urban dweller MIGHT have to deal with, but this is a distance that would be a natural if you live in a rural environment
3) Out PAST 200 yards - if you feel this distance will be an issue, you are probably living in a fairly remote (in the wilds) type of situation

Having said that, here's what I do:

1) Out to 100 yards - some form of pistol - mine are CZ52 (4) & .357 revolver (4) - don't forget extra magazines and speed loaders and lots of ammo - I also have the 'armorer's' kit for the CZ52's. I've posted the pix of the kit recently. Both of these different firearms sets are at least .30 caliber. With my speedloaders, I can reload a 'hot' revovler as quickly as I can drop a mag and then slap a mag back in place in my semi's. In both instances you should practice (standing and sitting) and you WILL need both hands, even if only briefly.

If a hand gun is not for you, consider the 12 or 20 gauge shotgun and lots of ammo for them as they are also ideal for this range (at least out to 50 yards - unless you use slugs then that range MIGHT be 100 yards).

All of these firearms are 'short range' weapons. 1k rounds per weapon is minimum for these weapons.

2) 100 - 200 yards - to cover this intermediate range you should have some form of semi auto firearm, preferably at least a .30 caliber (full auto if you have a TON of ammo - literally). I have AMD65 and NHM91, both AK's. Lots of spare mags. The AMD65 will be the 'shorter' of the two for close in work. The NHM91 is a long barreled AK - similar to the s/a RPK that Argent Dragon recently purchased. All of these share the same mags. I have 10, 20, and 30 round mags plus 75 round Chinese drums. I have scoped the NHM91 with the 'correct' Russian PSO scope and quick disconnect rail. I'm considering adding a Kobra site to the AMD65 (similar to EOTech or other American designs). Again, don't forget to have LOTS AND LOTS of ammo, because this will be your 'go to' weapon in most instances. Especially all you urban dwellers (me too). Minimum in my mind is 2k rounds PER weapon. So I should have at least 6k on hand. I have a 'parts kit' that gives me everything BUT the receiver for each of these rifles, so parts should NOT be an issue.

3) Out past 200 yards - a well built bolt action rifle in .30 caliber of your choice (OR LARGER). With really good optics. This weapon will be more likely used to 'gather meat' than for fortress protection, but you never know. Ammo? I lean towards hand loads myself, but if not, practice with your ammo of choice and WRITE DOWN the results. Laminate that info and leave it WITH the rifle. I would consider 1k rounds to be absolute minimum.

That's where I'm at. Some of it at my wife's insistence after we sat here and watched Katrina unfold in NOLA.

I've been meaning to post the link for Feather USA, which makes an interesting little weapon, in several handgun calibers.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Hmm... so many to choose from. (Warning: Post contains Gun Porn)


For me I would say (hypothetically speaking):

Handgun:-

SIG P226R in .357SIG (with 9mm/.40 drop in replacement barrels)
or
a GLOCK 33 in .357SIG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_33
or
H&K Mk23 Mod 0 .45 cal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK23_Mod_0
or
Desert Eagle or S&W revolver in .357 or .44

(Like I said.. so many choices. All good firearms).

Mid-range:

12 gauge of some kind, accurised AR-15 of some description, or AK-47 but
only a SAM 7 version with forged/milled bits from Arsenal:

http://www.ak-47.us/Arsenal.php

(Probably prefer the AK over an AR-15 due to maintenance issues/jams)

Long range:

Sako TRG-42 .338 Lapua + Harris bi-pod or similar. With lots of match grade ammo.
http://demigodllc.com/photo/TRG-42/


Bar the GLOCK, none of this stuff is particularly cheap, but hey, this is survival, so why be cheap on that primary requirement. In the next couple of years, I'll probably own all the following (first two are a done deal):

GLOCK 34 (9mm) (may keep, may sell, depends how I feel about the SIG)
SIG P226R (.357SIG interchangeable barrel to 9mm)
S&W Revolver (.357 or .44)
12 Gauge pump. (for defense, or bunnies, or both)
.22 Anschutz or Weatherby (for bunny rabbits / fun / small game etc.)
Possibly a pump or bolt action .223 rifle, heavy barrel. Possibly Tikka or Sako. (For practice, fun and general plinking)
Sako TRG-42 heavy barrel .338 Lapua Magnum (for steaks)

That will round out my collection, don't want or need anything else. If I had to leave the house in a SHTF scenario, Sako would be the main thing to come along.

Due to local laws, we are restricted by law in what we can own, and no semi-automatics are tolerated in Australia in public hands. So only pump, bolt, or lever-action are allowed. 10 round mags max, and no handgun over .357 without being a sillhouette shooter and special permission. We actually could not own an AK or AR due to local laws, even in semi, so 12 gauge only. (Yeah I know...)

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1. Stungun propelled by a slingshot
2. C02 Air Taser
3. Cattle prod and compound hunting bow :D

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

thanks everyone for your input. they were priceless.

wyldwill, give me a few months and i'll be right there with ya, pal! :D

since i live in an urban/sub-urban area, i think a long-range weapon is unnecessary at this point. i went to the range over the weekend and test shot many firearms, then placed an order for a Russian SKS which i plan to modify a bit. this should suffice my needs for range.

thanks again. it's times like these that i'm grateful GIM exists.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Absolutely. I'm going to my first gun show later this month and will study this thread extensively for ideas. I only have a Sig 9mm and a Remmington 870 right now and I'm now looking for a rifle of some sort. Thanks y'all! :emotions16:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

The SKS is a good piece. Are you getting a real Russian SKS or a Yugo or something else? Just curious because generally you'll pay more for a Russian and I wouldn't want a dealer to sell you a common Yugo at Russian prices.

Do what you want with your gun of course but there's not really too much that has to be done. They work very well with the stripper clips with their original 10rd fixed magazines. You should stock up on stripper clips and the 10 pocket chest pouches.

http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=282712

When you go to buy ammo you might want to look for Wolf Military Classic hollow points. They are loaded with a different bullet than Wolf or other 7.62x39 HP's and fragment with dramatic effect, probably the max wounding potential for this cartridge.

These guys will have a whole lot of good info for you as a new SKS owner.

http://sksboards.com/

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

that's some wise advice REV, and it's also EXACTLY what the fellas at the range told me as well. i guess i'm a sucker for good looks because i can't seem to get my eyes off that goddamn Dragunov stock!

http://www.hammermods.com/images/Dragunov1c.JPG

i know, i know, i should keep it the way it is. i'm going to listen to this advice because i know in my mind it's the wise choice, which only leaves me with one other option -- buy another gun! :applause_

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I'm going to add some spice to the mix.

1- HK USP45 Tactical w/ AAC Evolution Can
2- HK UMP45 w/ Gemtek Can
3- Robinson Arms XCR in 7.62x39 18" light barrel w/ AAC can


At least thats how I want my set to look like :D (I haven't shot shotties before so I know I am missing something :bear_tongue:)

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1. Mossberg 500 12ga.
2. Beretta 92FS 9mm.
3. the one between my legs.

don't forget man does not live by guns alone, someone had it right...
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...jin/pic_k9.jpg

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

THIS IS MY RIFLE

THIS IS MY GUN

ONE IS FOR SHOOTING

THE OTHER FOR FUN

:s9:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

ruger 10/22, sks, browning hi power 9mm. rubber stock for the ruger is nice, a red dot reflex scope ok too, sks, just a poor man's ak. browning hi power.........................13 round cap, like the way it fits my hand, like the design. just a class act in blue and walnut. i can make a shotgun with pipes, drill, hose clamps, and a piece of 2x4. ammo readily available for above 3. jmo

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1. Browning Auto-5 or Benelli M1

2. Glock or 1911

3. FAL 17.5" barrel

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I've always had a thing for Drags

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

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My favourite Youtube video


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Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

I don't know much about weapons but this one would serve well and be an excellent bargaining item perhaps.

http://www.glamguns.com/hk47.html

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

This is my defend the Ponderosa SHTF list.
1. Mossberg 590
2. Hi cap 9mm
3. FAL

This is my traveling gotta get outta Dodge SHTF list.
1. AK74
2. Hi cap 9mm
3. Ruger hi cap 22lr pistol

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Cap and ball? (lol)

Maranatha,

:smile:

P.S. or a Model 36 or 60.

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Started with 3,,,... now...

...:D

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

When the SHTF I'll probably just stand there in front the gun safes, paralyzed by indecision. Why do we always say "three guns"? If we have to get out, even the dogs will be packing in their little doggie packs. I figure the Husky can easily carry the Marlin Papoose .22 rifle and a .357, the Pit/Boxer mix can carry a couple of .45s. :D

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

1.Something for your pocket.

2. Something for a holster.

3. Something for your shoulder.

If you have these carrying methods down correctly then the pieces will fall into place.

Mobility and speed will be a prime concern. Your home last stand stuff is extra IMHO.

I can't out gun a Gov agency or even a Gang on my budget.

Get stuff thats fun and hits paper well. Its 1000xs more likely you will use it that way IMHO.

E-A

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

...don't ya just hate the indecision part? :smokin:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Oh, yeah. There are the ones I know I should take, and the ones I don't want to leave...

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

http://www.easybarrow.co.uk/wheelbarrows/0108g_big.jpg

:wink:

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

You've been readin' GUNKID?

...he was a constant contributor(read troll) to Glocktalk and other gun forums a few years back...probably until they locked him up...he was infamous for his "survival wheelbarrow" approach to SHTF buggin' out...

Re: Three Guns for SHTF?
 

Never heard of him, but I know I couldn't choose, and I don't have enough slings to put one on every gun I'd take :tongue_ma: